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I
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri a
whiteall knight resigned from an
ambassadorship nobody knew he held and
the liberal Elite and their media go all
Dr pavlof the resignation of the
previously unknown British ambassador to
the EU sir Ivan Rogers is being spun as
a national disaster regardless of the
fact whatever your view on brexit that
he has been a failure if you're a
remainer you must accept he failed to
persuade the EU of Britain's seriousness
in considering leaving and to have
pushed for sufficient concessions from
Brussels if you're a brexiter you must
accept that an ambassador who's Gone
full Stockholm syndrome may not be the
best man to negotiate withrawal our
first guest is today's man of English
letters conservative principled a man of
rare Integrity in today's Fleet Street
he is is the journalist author and
broadcaster Peter oborn Peter in print
uh this week you launched a ferocious
but forensic attack on Jonathan Powell
uh Mr Blair's man of business uh laterly
but for 10 years the king of the Downing
Street Castle uh on this subject of the
resignation of the uh former now British
ambassador to the EU Just For The View
who didn't catch it in print summarize
it if you would yes Jonathan pal within
hours of the uh departure of uh s Ivan
Rogers came out and made a series of
public statements including one on the
Today program to the British Nation
saying that this was a collapse an
attack on civil service integrity and
decency here was a principled public
servant who was been undermined and
destroyed by a by a a government
determined to
politize uh the national interest and
the point with that which I came I
listened to this live and I couldn't
believe it Jonathan p as you will
remember as I know and I've recorded um
was the person who corrupted the Downing
Street Machine along with alista
Campbell they they went in there they
they they waged a sort of War on
principal public servants they only
imposed a a collection of blurite
sycophants um they they broke down the
barriers between party and state and
they hear Jonathan Paul go old moral on
us when this is a man who did so much
damage to deep and Lasting damage to the
British uh Constitution it was too much
for me I'm afraid it was uh he was the
king uh or the Zar of a
nomenclatura uh which uh which D blism
and and War and as indeed I pointed out
of course that he has interfered in the
notorious
dossier uh in we on these weapons of
mass destruction that he was a courtier
to bushion to
blur yeah a million people lie dead as a
result of this cabal uh so it's not a
small matter and he's the last man who
should have been out defending the
sanctity of uh of an impartial civil
service I'll I'll grant you that but
let's look at the issues beneath uh this
Ambassador I confess I had never heard
of him before uh his way going we are
told is is a disaster for uh Britain and
that it's been caused by muddled
thinking at cabinet level Prime
ministerial level about brexit now this
has some traction because there is still
a lack of clarity as to whether we're
really leaving the terms on which we're
leaving uh what the uh outcome might be
do you recognize at least that I speak
as a brexiter myself that it's not at
all clear when we're going to leave and
on what basis we're going to leave
that's absolutely true I mean there's
all kinds of ways in which you might
go and let both of us would agree we
want to go cheerfully and in good good
spirits and and in good relationship
with our our former European Partners
but it's it's uh it's I don't think we
have any sense at all what Mrs May has
in mind is she serious at all cuz
obviously she's not she wasn't a pro
brexiter and she seems neither one way
or the other I agree I mean there are a
number of you're very wise there there's
a number of par Parx is
embedded in Mrs May when it comes to the
European Union she was in favor of it uh
she wanted to remain and now she's
trying to lead us out um and there's a
lot of pressures on
her um is my own view is we should just
leave actually I think it's the just
send a memo we're
leaving we won't put any tariffs or uh
barriers on you uh unless and until you
put them on us we're not sending you any
any more money henceforth we will decide
who comes into our country and who must
leave it uh but we give you the
assurance that we have no intention of
deporting any of the EU citizens who are
currently living here what you do with
our citizens living in your country is
of course a matter for you that's really
the end of it is it you don't really
need to get it's not rocket science this
yes I i' so agree with you and I think
this is becoming apparent now if you
look at the inwardness what's actually
going with the departure of this um
Ambassador who as you noted nobody knew
who his existence before day before
yesterday the there is a battle there's
there is a very Fierce rear guard action
going on uh in all which involves the
city of London the big investment Banks
the Civil Service the the rump of
blairites George Osborne Nick C they're
all at it and they want us to leave and
stay at the same time which means that
we continue to abide by the rules of the
European
Union and they it is they they try and
maintain that that's a good thing now
the why that that is why you need
negotiation because that involves
involves in the S Humpty dumpies of this
world the individual who's just gone and
he's then he negotiates this that and
the other all these and you get involved
in some incredibly compc liated
bureaucratic morass which goes on for
years and nothing ever happens now
actually you put it very well George you
can just leave yes yes no but as always
with Mr Blair there's a third way uh
Osborne wants us to stay and leave at
the same time that's true in a good very
good way of putting it but Blair doesn't
want us to leave at all and he's now
back on the field with 10 million in his
War chest he has this
announced uh he's setting up not a think
tank but basically a fighting
organization with 10 million of his
money he says and the ability presumably
to bring in more money he intends to
stop brexit and the way presumably that
they intend to do that is to push for a
second referendum which they would hope
uh might uh reverse the uh the uh
decision of the first your friend and
mine Tony Blair just when you thought it
was safe to get back in the water he's
back how do you react to
that I think if Mr Blair um wants to
come back into British uh public life he
really does need to engage with uh the
Iraq his history uh and he needs to
acknowledge that that Iraq war was a
terrible thing a ghastly mistake most
terrible
mistake I I think that it and he seems
unable to do anything of the sort he
hasn't properly apologized for it yet
even so I I I don't think that Mr Blair
is wise to want to return to British
public life or right to do so what would
be the impact of his 10 million though
10 million buys a lot uh and his cause
has the backing of much of the Mandarin
in whiteall many of the members of
parliament on in all parties most of the
press mhm all of the BBC MH uh the city
of
London uh the biggest of big business
they all want to Scupper the brexit
result that's a formidable potential
Coalition uh we were discussing earlier
today really the the new dividing line
in politics is not the old left right
whether x% of the economy should be in
public ownership and or or or x minus uh
not whether the rate of tax should be 30
or 40% and these are old politics really
the the new dividing line is
between those who support remaining in
the EU and its globalization and
neoliberal economic uh uh platform who
want to go to war with Russia and fight
Assad in Syria and move NATO further and
further onto the lawn uh of the Russians
and so on these are new dividing lines
aren't they and Trump and farage and me
and you find ourselves on the same side
I think one of the other ones and I'm
speaking as a conservative and you I
know very honorably labor it's Community
versus individual yes yes and I think
the last 10 20 years the victory of
neoliberalism have been about
individuals yes and as a conservative I
say this as confidently as you the
enormous disparity of wealth for
instance the destruction of very
long-standing consum for you as for me
as a conservative as for a principled
labor person the destruction of ancient
communities and the ties That Bind
people that's a very big theme I think
Marx wrote in 1848 that all that was
sacred would be profaned all that was
solid would melt into
air you know 150 170 years later that's
actually happening that under the
neoliberal globalization nothing that's
sacred is sacred anymore and nothing
that tied people the their project is
the
atomization of societies and even of
countries don't you think well
atomization very much of countries the
European Union has been a project for
the destruction of countries of
industries of jobs of
values and we've SE we're living through
this in the most profound and terrifying
way at the moment try going to Southern
Italy try going to Greece try going to
southern Spain you're seeing the
absolute Inu inhumanity of it is
unbelievable the the wiping out of the
hopes of entire generations of young men
and women that's what you're seeing the
the bankruptcy of countries these are
very dark times one we'll be we'll be
with have no time unfortunately we
calling each other comrade Peter auor a
man of English letters and a wise one
too coming up it's the former mayor of
London and Veteran labor leader Ken
Livingston don't miss
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it welcome back to Sputnik New Year's
Day wasn't over when it became clear
that for the labor leader Jeremy Corbin
2017 wasn't going to be much different
to the year just passed the field of
conflict has shifted from Parliament to
the trade unions as the blairites seek
to knock away Corbin's support mechanism
there and to the fabians Lennon said
that George Bernard Shaw was a good man
Fallen among fabians today's fabians
seem committed to the fall of another
good man Jeremy Corbin with their
carefully timed and some say rather
self-serving prediction that labor may
be headed for a 1935 size rump of just
150 MPS who better to review the year
ahead for labor and our mutual friend
Jeremy Corbin than the man who was twice
mayor of London a former labor MP and
leading member of the part's NEC until
like me being kicked out of Labor it's
Ken Livingston Ken thanks for joining us
on the sputnic let's start with the
fabians a mild mannered group of people
normally but they New Year present for
Jeremy Corbin was far from mild mannered
what did you think of it well I'd hope
that after Jeremy's decisive reelection
all this backstabbing most labor MPS
have stopped doing it because they know
Germany's going to lead us into the next
general election their seats are at risk
if we don't unite and these poor pole
ratings they are bad but who's surprised
we've had a year of internal conflict in
the lb party put that behind us let's
focus on the economy cuz nothing good is
going to happen in the next few years in
Britain I may at the very best will limp
along her government with low economic
growth at the worst we go back into
recession so it's a potential disaster
and as long as labor focuses on the
economy Jeremy can win I me people will
be so sick and tired of all they've had
under Cameron and now they're going to
have under May a Savage attack on our
services C I mean my local Council Brent
about half its income from the
government has been stopped I mean Li
are Clos I mean teachers I mean in
London we got a huge um problem now
because I a teacher is paid £25,000 a
year if they got a rent a room I mean
that's got be half their their money
will be gone in that I mean we're in a
disaster and nothing about ma government
is going to lift us out I mean she often
says some quite you know encouraging
things about looking after the the poor
and those struggling hard but they've
done damn all about it and she served in
Cameron's government where they just
made life worse for all people and ger
focuses on the economy yeah well these
are all the reasons why the blairite uh
forces in parament should desist but
evidently they are not they've just
shifted their emphasis the Fabian uh
candy floss for that's what the research
was I mean it was based on opinion polls
dating back to the challenge uh to
Corbin in the last of those opinion
polls labor was 31 The Tourist 38 not
bad at all going into the kind of period
when you and I came into politics I mean
people just stayed with one political
party all their life if they were
unhappy they might abstain but they
wouldn't switch to another party now
people change their mind on the way to
the polling station I mean so that's why
polls at the moment aren't terribly
impressive they've had a pretty Dreadful
record andly bad press I mean if in
exactly the same way that Donald Trump
in America tapped into the anger of
Ordinary People who seen the good jobs
go their life getting worse that's
exactly what we've got to tap into in
the labor party I mean in the last
general election I was in marginal Tory
seats all over the place the number of
people who stopped me and said what did
the last Labor government do for me and
that's why the Blair rights are so
bitter they know actually they had 13
years in power they could have changed
this country they could have made it
better for ordinary people They carried
on sucking up to the B Bankers you know
doing whatever they wanted the wealth
went to the top one Ordinary People
didn't get their share well let's talk
about him because he's not history he's
back this very week he's announced a 10
million War chest of his own money he
says and presumably able to attract much
more uh to essentially re-enter the
political sphere uh he says he doesn't
want to be prime minister again says he
thinks that that's impossible uh we see
if he maintains that for long but he is
back and he's going to be uh in conflict
with other political forces now here's a
paradox the blairites were the most proe
people imaginable yet those same
blairites are now attacking Corbin for
failing to opt for an end to free
movement of Labor this is going to mix
up a lot of politics now well we if
Blair comes in and starts attacking
Jeremy Corbin Corbin's poll ratings will
go up I mean I think Tony Blair is the
only former prime minister in my
lifetime who can't walk down the street
without armed protection he is the most
loathed political figure FID by the
taxpayers FID by us yeah I mean no I
mean I think and isn't just the war in
Iraq it's the way he's made his money
ever since that he stopped being prime
minister being attacked by by Tony I
mean Tony bless should just go off lie
in the sun on some exotic Beach slowly
and fade away he not going to have an
impact on our politics it's it will just
cause more disruption more I mean taking
the focus away from focusing on the
economy which is the absolutely crucial
thing you actually look at Jeremy's
program for a massive public sector
investment to modernize our economy
cracking down on Google and Starbucks
and all these tax Dodgers I mean the
vast majority of labories actually agree
with that as does the public well Jeremy
was Bernie Sanders before Bernie Sanders
uh and we hear talk of a kind of
relaunch of Jeremy as Britain's uh
Bernie Sanders that requires him to be
out in the country don't you think he's
spending too much time and the air is
very still uh in the House of Commons
he'd be better and he'd meet better
people uh on the streets and roads of
Britain's towns and cities I think
that's what's coming because you know
he's been tied up with all this internal
fighting and all of that as I I think
the vast majority of Labor in P now
there's no point carrying on with that
and I think it's going to be a much more
open Camp I mean Jeremy's basic style
all my lifetime I've known him that he's
always been out there campaigning on
issues with groups and so on I mean he's
been an MP but most of what he's
achieved has been working in those
various campaigns outside I think
focusing on that it might be that we
don't have an election till 2020 but
increasingly I'm thinking if it looks
like we will have a brexit because the
isn't that going to allow us to stop the
migration of peoples and so we might
leave in you know April the 1st 199 2019
that'll be devastating for their economy
we going have negotiated any trade deals
or anything like that so I'm beginning
to worry that I Chara May might decide
to have an election before the brexit so
that you know she can escape and the
pain of that so we might get an election
even this year and that's what I mean
Jeremy I mean Simon fles who used to be
my chief staff initially was Jeremy but
he's been put in charge of preparing for
the election so I think they're they're
gearing up for that if we have an
election in 2017 the Labor candidates
are going to be today's labor MPS what
good could come of that well I'm I mean
I was always in favor of automatic
reselection that you know every run up
to I mean in America everybody standing
for congress they're subject to a how
many decades they've been in Congress
they can still be challenged for the
denomination of their party over here
it's more yeah just we did used to have
it I mean back in the early 80s we
brought that in and I think that makes
MPS much more responsive to their local
party members so I'm hoping that a lot
of these people who've been stabbing
Jeremy in the back will be challenged by
the new members that have come in and
said well we don't want you as rmp
anymore what about the trade unions Lan
mlus has been a pillar of support for
Progressive policies long before Jeremy
Corbin
it's entirely wrong to caricature him as
Jeremy Corbin's puppet he he stood for
them just as long as Corbin has uh but
he's now under Challenge from a man who
seems to be uh playing to the
Parliamentary labor party Playbook uh
what do you think of the chances of
success for the blairites there I don't
think they've got any hope what it
people really like LM mclusky he's a
decent guy he he didn't Trade union need
to to me multi-millionaire or something
like that he fights for workers rights
and it does look pretty obvious I
wouldn't be at all surprised to find
that the same people who are funding the
campaigns against Jeremy will be funding
this campaign um to try and get rid of
mclusky but they will fail in that I
mean bulus is a national figure lastly
uh the I want to talk to you about the
media uh when you were the leader of the
GLC greater London Council for younger
uh viewers uh
your life was made a Misery by uh a
rapacious press but that was before the
247 media era was before social media
before Facebook Twitter all of that you
are masterful at handling that I used to
uh gaze in wonder how you managed to
turn their attacks into increased
support for for yourself you are great
at handling uh media
attacks he's our friend I don't like to
say it Jeremy's not quite so good what
could he do to improve his public
relations Persona well I mean we know
that the bulk of the press are not going
to fairly report what Jeremy's doing and
I mean the the labor party team around
Jeremy are focusing much now on the
internet I the social media bypassing
the journalist but you mean I think
you've got too fond a memory of my time
then after I've been leader of the jlc
for 6 months my pole Ra was down to 18%
which is I mean even worse than Jeremy's
got now I me but I'm like Jeremy I
didn't change my policies because of all
the lies in the media and Jeremy ain't
going to do that and I think people see
here's someone who's got the Integrity
to actually not give in I to the
murdocks and all the others and the Lord
rir and so on and I mean I I don't have
the slightest out that his poll ratings
will go out like mind did it takes a
year or two to get that across then K
thanks for joining us on the
Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling G tree
first off Britain brexit and there the
resigning EU Ambassador um who knew we
had one Phil said resigning civil
servants oversteep the mark decide or in
this case the British people an
ambassador is someone sent to lie abroad
for his country uh he's not there to uh
make his own lies he's not there to
paddle his own canoe uh his only purpose
is to convey and work for the line of
the government whose Ambassador he is
and clearly this man uh was not doing so
no neither before the referendum nor
after it now on uh the Parliamentary
labor party and their relation towards
Jeremy Corbin beggy says how many
workingclass vegans can he actually
connect with well it is a good point
that um Jeremy does look and and appear
and sometimes act a little too vegan all
respect to vegans and and we need their
votes but you need to reach out wider
than that outside of Islington well it's
all the tweets that we have time for
which alas means that's the end of the
show
uh but you can stay in touch with us on
social media rtor Sputnik on Twitter or
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today it's
good bye from me gri and from me George
Gallow it's been marvelous
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